Wednesday 3 July 2013

Wednesday.


The picture above relates to yesterday's blog entry, and which Stig of the dump spotted as being a butt plate. Well done daughter.  The present owner of the piece also has Bonham's catalogue description (which I have seen) of it the last time it changed hands some few years ago. Anyone care to guess the age and country of origin now?

17 comments:

Sir Bruin said...

I'm going to guess that it is a jezzail of some sort? Possibly India as a point of origin?

Z said...

German, mid 19th Century?

Unknown said...

Hello Sir Bruin. I can see what you mean, but No.

Z. Much nearer geographically, but not exactly. Date, I'm afraid - way out.

Rog said...

What about Dutch?

(Scraping the butt of the barrel)

Crowbard said...

Hi Mike,
wild guess, Italian C.16th?(I wanted to say European to be right - but that is too wide an area to define a piece like that)
You may have told me but I just can't recall your having done so. I would have been more confident with more detailed pictures of the other parts.
(If the owner wouldn't mind?)

Crowbard said...

PS, really admire the way you've picked up the border pattern from the butt; my Italian guess was driven by the classical figural motifs along the side of the butt

Unknown said...

Rog, by 'scraping the butt of the barrel', as he puts it, has locked (oh dear, oh dear) onto the right answer, or at least part of it. The piece last changed hands on the 14th April, 2005, when Bonham's described it as 'a very rare English or Dutch musket, late 16th, early 17th century' (or in other words made a few years either side of the year 1600).

Unknown said...

Crowbard. I sent you a photo of the butt plate, I think about a fortnight ago to canvas your opinion about including a 'green man' in the centre of the plate; but you are right in that I didn't send you a photo of the completed job with the plate in situ. There are half a dozen or so of these pieces extant, and there has, in the past been some controversy as to their nationality. They were, in the past, considered Dutch, but expert opinion has been swinging round, and the usual view these days are that they are almost certainly English. Bonham's state that there is a very similar one in the collection of H.M. The Queen, with a similar conversion (matchlock to flintlock, circa 1670), vide Lenk 'The Flintlock, 1965, pl 4:2.

P.p.s.Crowbard, ref your request for 'more detailed pictures of the other parts' - not immediately available, of course, but I might be able to arrange it. I'll be in touch.

Unknown said...

Sir Bruin - "A scrimmage in a border station.
A canter down a dark defile.
Two thousand pounds of education,
drops to a ten rupee jezail."

Bit more than a ten rupee jezail, and yet Indian gunsmiths produced something very similar.

stigofthedump said...

Very pretty piece, I have to mention the striking family resemblance between Mike, Crowbard and the chap on the butt plate!!! Very handsome!

Sir Bruin said...

Arithmetic on the frontier. On a par with Wilfred Owen, methinks.

Unknown said...

Hello Sir Bruin. Yes, easily on a par- not I suppose that poets can be compared. Thanks for sending me the title - enabled me to look it up - hadn't read it for years, and I do like Kipling - readable stuff.

Strike hard who cares - shoot straight who can-
The odds are on the cheaper man.

One sword knot stolen from the camp
will pay for all the school expenses
of any Kurrum Valley scamp
who knows no word of moods and tenses,
But, being blessed with perfect sight,
Picks off our messmates left and right.

Unknown said...

P.s. I suppose I could have found it by Googling the few scraps I could remember.

A few years ago my late Mother-in-Law was trying to remember a drawing room ballad her father used to sing (Curfew shall not ring Tonight) and I googled it and took her a copy of the Victorian Score I'd found. She was as pleased as Punch!

Sir Bruin said...

I also like Kipling, although I find it Rudyard.

Sorry, the old ones are the best and I couldn't resist!

Unknown said...

Of almost equal antiquity is the old- !I don't know if I like Kipling - I've never Kippled.'

Lori Skoog said...

I do not have a clue Mike! But I sure appreciate the replacement piece you created. Wow.

Unknown said...

Thank you Lori. I am an antiquarian horologist by trade and qualification, but seem to have graduated to making missing bits for mechanical antiques. In a sense making one missing part for almost any inlaid item is easy because I've got the rest of the inlay to copy from. Lucky too, because earlier in the year I was having to seriously consider the the possibility of retiring, whereas I'm simply taking a bit more time in thinking out, and making, things like the illustrated butt plate.